removed windows vista machine

Could not install my Umax 2000u usb scanner under Vista, which wasn't a big deal since it's time to replace it (have had it since W98). Had to constantly play with permissions for the various folders, etc on MY machine, but at least there were workarounds. All my software I had installed (Works 7.0 suite, Office Pro 2000, Roxio Basic DVD 7.0, Money 2006, Win DVD, etc.).
The primary reason I ended up removing Vista from my machine was the simple fact that Norton Internet Security does not work on Vista. I like Norton becuase it has always worked, allows me to block cookies from particular sites, allows me to control what programs access the internet, blocks ads from most sites (I have never clicked on an ad in 10 years anyways and never will) and becuase it my opinion, is the best all-around security product out there. And since I do a lot of browsing of the internet, need quality protection.
When Norton releases a version to work on Vista, I plan to jump back on the Vista bandwagon.
Hint to MS, Since you are releasing so many versions of Vista anyways, why not release one for single user machines. That way single users have a simple way to have full access to every folder and item on their machine without having to jump through hoops to get into them. Don't mention UAC, for that is very limited. I for one like my machine customized to the way I want it. At lease with XP, I could easily change were the some of system folders were easily through tweak. I don't want my pictures or videos under my documents. I like using my documenst just for the items that need backing up on a regular basis. Just store it in my documents and it's backed up.

"manicd" wrote in message hello there, i had the same problem too... when i was trying to open any folder or program, the system stoped it by itself and asked to continue or cancel... i was giving up, but then i thought there is the name User Account Control... So what you have to do is...
1.Go to Control Panel. 2.Then click in User Accounts. 3.the last click in Change Security Settings. *there you have to turn off the UAC.
and that's all... after that you can open any program without the Window Microsoft Security can close it or stop it.

But that UAC did not turn off all security. I still had to change permissions on each way too many folders I wanted access to on MY machine. Like I said, I didn't like it but there were workarounds.
I feel that being MY machine, I should have FULL access to every nook and cranny on it. There needs to be a global switch that will grant FULL permission on MY machine.
If this machine was owned by somebody else and I was only authorized to use it, I could go along with the security.

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:30:31 -0700, "WILL.I.AM" wrote:

"manicd" wrote in message hello there, i had the same problem too... when i was trying to open any folder or program, the system stoped it by itself and asked to continue or cancel... i was giving up, but then i thought there is the name User Account Control... So what you have to do is...
1.Go to Control Panel. 2.Then click in User Accounts. 3.the last click in Change Security Settings. *there you have to turn off the UAC.
and that's all... after that you can open any program without the Window Microsoft Security can close it or stop it.

Sorry you feel that way about it but the security model is designed to keep YOUR machine YOURS by preventing bots and such from taking it away from you. It also protects us by your not having an infected machine. Nevertheless, you are right to feel entitled to do with your machine as you wish and the best of luck to you with it.
"manicd" wrote in message

But that UAC did not turn off all security. I still had to change permissions on each way too many folders I wanted access to on MY machine. Like I said, I didn't like it but there were workarounds.
I feel that being MY machine, I should have FULL access to every nook and cranny on it. There needs to be a global switch that will grant FULL permission on MY machine.
If this machine was owned by somebody else and I was only authorized to use it, I could go along with the security.

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:30:31 -0700, "WILL.I.AM" shaggy_manx@hotmail.com> wrote:
"manicd" wrote in message hello there, i had the same problem too... when i was trying to open any folder or program, the system stoped it by itself and asked to continue or cancel... i was giving up, but then i thought there is the name User Account Control... So what you have to do is...
1.Go to Control Panel. 2.Then click in User Accounts. 3.the last click in Change Security Settings. *there you have to turn off the UAC.
and that's all... after that you can open any program without the Window Microsoft Security can close it or stop it.

My first reaction to all security features in Vista was - yeah right! BUT, after using it for a few days, getting used to the features, I have accepted them as the way ''to do business'' these days.
Similar to the extra search processes at the airport...............''the times they are a changin''

"Colin Barnhorst" wrote in message

Sorry you feel that way about it but the security model is designed to keep YOUR machine YOURS by preventing bots and such from taking it away from you. It also protects us by your not having an infected machine. Nevertheless, you are right to feel entitled to do with your machine as you wish and the best of luck to you with it.
"manicd" wrote in message But that UAC did not turn off all security. I still had to change permissions on each way too many folders I wanted access to on MY machine. Like I said, I didn't like it but there were workarounds.
I feel that being MY machine, I should have FULL access to every nook and cranny on it. There needs to be a global switch that will grant FULL permission on MY machine.
If this machine was owned by somebody else and I was only authorized to use it, I could go along with the security.

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:30:31 -0700, "WILL.I.AM" shaggy_manx@hotmail.com> wrote:
"manicd" wrote in message hello there, i had the same problem too... when i was trying to open any folder or program, the system stoped it by itself and asked to continue or cancel... i was giving up, but then i thought there is the name User Account Control... So what you have to do is...
1.Go to Control Panel. 2.Then click in User Accounts. 3.the last click in Change Security Settings. *there you have to turn off the UAC.
and that's all... after that you can open any program without the Window Microsoft Security can close it or stop it.

What's to stop a bot from changing permissions?
That's why a quality program like Norton Internet Secuirty is used. It has protected me from everthing since I started using it a few years ago. Norton has kept MY machine MINE.

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:32:27 -0600, "Colin Barnhorst" wrote:

Sorry you feel that way about it but the security model is designed to keep YOUR machine YOURS by preventing bots and such from taking it away from you. It also protects us by your not having an infected machine. Nevertheless, you are right to feel entitled to do with your machine as you wish and the best of luck to you with it.

There is no need to business that way these days if you use a proper security program to begin with. That's why I only use Norton Internet Security. (No, I do not work for or sell Norton) It is a quality program that has protected me without fail.
Just becuase Windows has a ton of security problems, doesn't mean I need to have to jump through hoops on MY own machine. If Windows was properly written to begin with, these problems would not exist. And no, I would never use that other computer known as Mac. I mean really, their logo is an apple with a bite taken out of it. The person who took the bite realized how rotten it was and didn't finish it.
I don't have a problem at airports for I no longer fly. I refuse to use an industry that has always ignored the safety of their customers as history has proven out by there constant refusal to install saftey measures until people are killed or injured. Nuff said about that.
On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:19:54 -0400, "Bill" wrote:

My first reaction to all security features in Vista was - yeah right! BUT, after using it for a few days, getting used to the features, I have accepted them as the way ''to do business'' these days.
Similar to the extra search processes at the airport...............''the times they are a changin''

Under Vista a bot won't be able to change permission since it won't have a security profile which is why we have to dance thru hoops with UAC as is and it's all for the better (I can't say about tomorrow.. lot of hackers/virus/trojan writers are as good as anyone).. And if you think Norton is quality, sorry but Norton went downhill when Peter Norton left the company years ago. Symantec Corp. AV is the only really good thing they make IMHO. NIS is adequate at best and I can think of a few AVs off the top of my head that are better and Vista's firewall can do what Norton's does if one takes the time with the advanced one. I won't say NIS doesnt work, it does, but it's tres heavy on resources and ram and it's not foolproof, nothing is really.
"manicd" wrote in message

What's to stop a bot from changing permissions?
That's why a quality program like Norton Internet Secuirty is used. It has protected me from everthing since I started using it a few years ago. Norton has kept MY machine MINE.

We all have the right to do as we please. I wouldn't have a Norton Product on my machine. Choice is good - I've made mine.

"manicd" wrote in message

There is no need to business that way these days if you use a proper security program to begin with. That's why I only use Norton Internet Security. (No, I do not work for or sell Norton) It is a quality program that has protected me without fail.
Just becuase Windows has a ton of security problems, doesn't mean I need to have to jump through hoops on MY own machine. If Windows was properly written to begin with, these problems would not exist. And no, I would never use that other computer known as Mac. I mean really, their logo is an apple with a bite taken out of it. The person who took the bite realized how rotten it was and didn't finish it.
I don't have a problem at airports for I no longer fly. I refuse to use an industry that has always ignored the safety of their customers as history has proven out by there constant refusal to install saftey measures until people are killed or injured. Nuff said about that.
On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:19:54 -0400, "Bill" wrote:
My first reaction to all security features in Vista was - yeah right! BUT, after using it for a few days, getting used to the features, I have accepted them as the way ''to do business'' these days.
Similar to the extra search processes at the airport...............''the times they are a changin''

I reluctantly have to agree. I hate to diss a product line but as good as some of the Symantec products are I have had too many late night sessions picking registry entries out of my system after a Live Update mess. I just am not up to digging into my system to fix a commercial product. I have had such issues on three of my computers and life is just too short.
"Bill" wrote in message

We all have the right to do as we please. I wouldn't have a Norton Product on my machine. Choice is good - I've made mine.

"manicd" wrote in message There is no need to business that way these days if you use a proper security program to begin with. That's why I only use Norton Internet Security. (No, I do not work for or sell Norton) It is a quality program that has protected me without fail.
Just becuase Windows has a ton of security problems, doesn't mean I need to have to jump through hoops on MY own machine. If Windows was properly written to begin with, these problems would not exist. And no, I would never use that other computer known as Mac. I mean really, their logo is an apple with a bite taken out of it. The person who took the bite realized how rotten it was and didn't finish it.
I don't have a problem at airports for I no longer fly. I refuse to use an industry that has always ignored the safety of their customers as history has proven out by there constant refusal to install saftey measures until people are killed or injured. Nuff said about that.
On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:19:54 -0400, "Bill" wrote:
My first reaction to all security features in Vista was - yeah right! BUT, after using it for a few days, getting used to the features, I have accepted them as the way ''to do business'' these days.
Similar to the extra search processes at the airport...............''the times they are a changin''

You should stay off the Norton bandwagon and jump on the Win One Care Live bandwagon--presumably some day MSFT will get WOC working on Vista. 3 Licenses; good backup to media or HD; firewall that will eventually mature to the same one in Vista. Doesn't take up as much realestate as Symantec products; less buggy; less CPU use. You also should use some feedback mechanism to tell them.
CH
"manicd" wrote in message

Could not install my Umax 2000u usb scanner under Vista, which wasn't a big deal since it's time to replace it (have had it since W98). Had to constantly play with permissions for the various folders, etc on MY machine, but at least there were workarounds. All my software I had installed (Works 7.0 suite, Office Pro 2000, Roxio Basic DVD 7.0, Money 2006, Win DVD, etc.).
The primary reason I ended up removing Vista from my machine was the simple fact that Norton Internet Security does not work on Vista. I like Norton becuase it has always worked, allows me to block cookies from particular sites, allows me to control what programs access the internet, blocks ads from most sites (I have never clicked on an ad in 10 years anyways and never will) and becuase it my opinion, is the best all-around security product out there. And since I do a lot of browsing of the internet, need quality protection.
When Norton releases a version to work on Vista, I plan to jump back on the Vista bandwagon.
Hint to MS, Since you are releasing so many versions of Vista anyways, why not release one for single user machines. That way single users have a simple way to have full access to every folder and item on their machine without having to jump through hoops to get into them. Don't mention UAC, for that is very limited. I for one like my machine customized to the way I want it. At lease with XP, I could easily change were the some of system folders were easily through tweak. I don't want my pictures or videos under my documents. I like using my documenst just for the items that need backing up on a regular basis. Just store it in my documents and it's backed up.

I feel that being MY machine, I should have FULL access to every nook and cranny on it. There needs to be a global switch that will grant FULL permission on MY machine.

The problem with every previous version of Windows is that most people run it as admin--granting them full access to every nook and cranny. If you run as an admin, then any code that runs under your account, malicious or not, also runs with the exact same credentials.
Every security book under the sun will tell you that granting yourself only the minimum rights you need to get your job done (and nothing more) is A Good Thing(tm). One of the reasons there are (comparitively) few effective attacks on Linux systems is that nobody (by default) runs as root--there's a world of difference right there. The successful attacks are those running under an elevated context.
I understand perfectly your feeling that it's YOUR machine and as such you should have FULL access to it. That perception stems, if nothing else, from the "this is how we've always done it in the past" perception. Guess what, this is exactly why it's so easy to exploit a Windows box, and this is exactly why this needs to change. The instant you go out of your way to bypass the security put into place in Vista to avoid "all them annoying prompts" and make it act like previous versions, well, indeed, Vista becomes just as insecure as those previous OSes.
Believe me, I find it annoying to no end too, and I'll also be the last one to step up in favor of Linux, but "they" got the right idea from the start. It'll take Windows users a lot of "unlearning" their bad habits, and it'll take developers a long time fix their software because it's been built with the incorrect assumption that it's got rights to everything. This ain't DOS anymore...

I have to agree. I have been using XP Pro since it came out. I have never had a virus infection or spyware infection on my PCs, and I am logged in as an Administrator everytime I log in. It all has to do with knowledge and using the proper security tools.
MS has taken so much heat about the insecurity of Windows. And the reason is the design of Windows. Now, with Vista, you have whole sections of the file system that are blocked, by default, using the Deny privalege!
You should only use Deny in certain circumstances. In Vista, even an Administrator can't view certain folders, without changing the security on the folders first. From a support perspective, this will be a major headache and problem.
MS has had to take this drastic (and stupid) step, again, because of the design of Windows. You would think they would have learned from Linux, especially since they have a very large Linux lab in Redmond.

"manicd" wrote in message

There is no need to business that way these days if you use a proper security program to begin with. That's why I only use Norton Internet Security. (No, I do not work for or sell Norton) It is a quality program that has protected me without fail.
Just becuase Windows has a ton of security problems, doesn't mean I need to have to jump through hoops on MY own machine. If Windows was properly written to begin with, these problems would not exist. And no, I would never use that other computer known as Mac. I mean really, their logo is an apple with a bite taken out of it. The person who took the bite realized how rotten it was and didn't finish it.
I don't have a problem at airports for I no longer fly. I refuse to use an industry that has always ignored the safety of their customers as history has proven out by there constant refusal to install saftey measures until people are killed or injured. Nuff said about that.
On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:19:54 -0400, "Bill" wrote:
My first reaction to all security features in Vista was - yeah right! BUT, after using it for a few days, getting used to the features, I have accepted them as the way ''to do business'' these days.
Similar to the extra search processes at the airport...............''the times they are a changin''